December 7, 2009

Heated debate about neo-tech and more

Carl

Neo-Tech is a trap, if you cannot see beyond the horizon of it's matrix
It's about the ego, status, ambition, recognition, fame…it's mind control…a very invisible cult
I am still trying to determine whether Wallace was conscious of his program, or if he was being manipulated by other entities

Within the context of left brain thinking….reason, logic, individualism, etc….it sounds and feels ok

My movie project is my priority…my own creation, since I had to get off promoting other people's products and services…see I never had any qualifications when I left school…it affected my progress in society, that amongst other things.

I suspect you have always known or now know that the capitalist concept et al…is an illusion

Gav

it depends what type of capitalism
and all that you've said about neo-tech is said in newer neo-tech
the zon protocols in 1998 had a section called 'leaving neo-tech'
and mark hamiltons work now is focussed on right brain stimulation application, rather than what he identifies as FRWs [Editor: Frank R Wallace] left brain idea development

Carl

What newer Neo-tech would that be, has Mark hamilton rewritten NT?

Gav

this has been explained in NT since 98
the zon protocols was by FRW, in 98

Carl

LOL…are you serious?

Gav

it even said that in Profound Honesty / Zonpower
its nothing new
they knew they had to move into right brain live arts
im sure you read that

Carl

I got the profound honesty book, but only skimmed through it, never went back to it. To cut to the chase, what is NT's position now on the status quo, because I had given up on them
??

Gav

what do you mean by status quo?

Carl

Current state of the anticiv
Do they now acknowledge spiritual technologies derived from right brain thinking, instead of the short sighted model of the bi-cameral mind
??

Gav

the scientific method and honesty
knowledge of the mind constantly evolves
they advocate a certain version of the 'law of attraction'
they have marketed about '10 second miracles' for years too
which is an experience beyond objectivists left brain logic
but neo-tech is not and never was objectivist

Carl

It was neo-objectivist

Gav

yes it has constantly evolved from the start
it targeted the break up of stagnant objectivism
thus used and expanded OIST [Editor: Objectivist] terminology and concepts

Carl

yes, i'm aware of that, however, wallace said objectivism was it's premise
Has the BI research project been halted? If so, why?

Gav

'the project' is a process, covering many areas
but without commercial drive for BI then its not a priority
the priority is creating the market that requires BI [Editor: Biological Immortality]
i mean not a direct priority
ofcourse its the ultimate priority

Carl

Do you sincerely believe that?

Gav

believe what?

Carl

There reasons for not offering commercial BI

Gav

without general global changes the elites will crush BI
they cant offer commercial BI, it doesn't exist
unless you think it does?

Carl

Their words, not mine
So do they now acknowledge the metaphysics such as quantum physics, kabbala, voodoo, the science of the ancients of Egypt, Atlantis, etc?

Or are they still classed as hocus pocus, bi-cameral products?
Tehuti, thoth of Atlantis and the emerald tablets, really?

Gav

one of the original neo-tech articles was about the ancients of Egypt
hermes, etc

Zonpower Physics was considerably about quantum physics

Carl

Is that new?
the publication

Gav

Zonpower was 1996
Profound Honesty is Zonpower

Carl

I remember he writes briefly about QP in it, not much though

Gav

bottom line is this Carl.  

All those things are both mystical and non-mystical, depending on the context of understanding, the evidence of their application, and the honesty of their comprehension

maybe you could try reading it again

Wallace wrote that some of the older neo-tech literature made historical or judgemental mistakes

Carl

Wallace's concept of the third component, manifesting itself into man could never fit into my paradigm

Gav

what third component?

Carl

It was like the egg and chicken question. Did man discover consciousness or did consciousness discover man, or create?

Gav

oh maybe thats the primacy of consciousness vs primacy of existence

Carl

However, the ancients and quantum physics made more sense, that consciousness is underlying fabric of existence, first was consciousness, then energy, and matter.
But why did Wallace dismiss the conscious knowledge and technologies of the ancients, all the way back to Atlantis, possibly further back?

Gav

so you think energy is created out of consciousness?
how do you define consciousness?

Carl

Why, do you know otherwise?

Gav

where did he dismiss ancient civilisation technologies?
i know only my own paradigm according to my way of defining things

Carl

Some say consciousness is energy that is aware

Gav

ok well for energy to be aware the energy must exist
hence the primacy of existence

Carl

I could simplify by saying it is awareness, but I think it is undescribable since it is existence itself

Gav

so existence equals consciousness?
i.e. there's no difference?

Carl

Consciousness encompasses all existence

Gav

so there's a difference?

Carl

The gnostics express the creator as unknowable, that which i believe is consciousness, which i could easily agree with
How do you define the creator?
That is primeval consciousness…in the beginning was the word….sound?

Gav

so you dont have a definition for consciousness?
and you dont claim to know what consciousness is?
what about what it does?

Carl

No, nothing else apart from awareness…and I am aware of the definition given by Jaynes as using metaphors and analogues, etc

Gav

so for you: consciousness = awareness?
ok fine lets drop the word consciousness for a moment as awareness is easier

so awareness comes before energy?
or awareness is a type of energy?
or what?

Carl

Ok, are you aware of the theory of a holographic universe?

Gav

yes

Carl

Ok, so it has been claimed there are different levels of consciousness right?

Gav

people use terms with different meanings

Carl

True, but what do understand by different levels, states, or maybe dimensions of consciousness, up to Carlt or god levels?
Have you read Don't stop your mind by James J. Traitz, very interesting read?

Gav

i havent heard of that book or author

Carl

Short read, about 100 pages, he talks about the light cone of physics…and going beyond that point, which is beyond the laws of physics basically.

Gav

different levels of thought up to god levels sounds like neo-tech to me

also sounds like awareness is something that exists with properties which have some sense of intent or direction or causal effect, which to me seem like common science about the nature of particles or chemistry or physics

and it also seems to me that such things are 'made up of' the thing i call energy

and yes we can describe different types of matter or life form as having different types or stages of awareness

well beyond the laws of physics is either things we dont yet understand, or its mystical, one of the two.

Carl

Well, the reason i mentioned that is because, somethings cannot be understood as long as we are in a certain state of consciousness

Gav

Everything can only be understand from the particular state of consciuosness which defines it

if you take drugs then you can have a different 'understanding' about things

Carl

Going beyond that boundary requires a different state of consciousness, such as the astro planes, etc

Gav

like aldous huxley, timothy o leary, and robert anton wilson

Carl

LOL…and the Terrence Mckenzie…genius he was

Glad u mentioned that, so botanical plants such as ayahusca, peyote are know to severely alter your state of consciousness…taking you to different dimensions, but these are what NT did class as mysticism before.

Gav

yes
bottom line is this
what value does it bring to you, others, and the purpose of ridding the planet of parasitical elites?

Carl

Well, it has become clear to me that we are not just dealing with flesh and blood parasites in the third dimension, hence why the powers that be are still in power today. In fact they seem to be possesed by multi-dimensional entities

Gav

the mysticism is in thinking that those dimensions are outside of yourself rather than inside

Carl

This is metaphysical science, and not irrationality

Gav

it is irrational to the person that maintains it in an irrational context
if a person maintains it in a consistent context then it is not irrational

Carl

Inside or out doesn't matter, it's the nature that matters

Gav

it matters to me, because the people that think these multidimensional entities are outside are mystical and thus susceptible to manipulation and loss of power

Carl

Well, they got it wrong, that's all

Gav

as jesus said “the kingdom of god is within” (paraphrased)
kabbalah is not about external forces
it is about psychology

Carl

The body is the temple

Gav

well its about external forces too, like physics, 'energy'

Carl

It is about what is
that’s why i said inside or out doesn't matter
I AM THAT I AM
A is A

Gav

but i ask you again, the bottom line is what such ideas as this contribute values to your own, others, or removing the parasites?

A is also not-A
as per general semantics and korzybski

Carl

It's about identifying it's nature accurately

Gav

accurately from a certain context
so the next question i guess is what actual result and effect this particular 'identification' has?

Carl

Huh…? A is also not-A

Gav

A is not-A suggests 'the map is not the terriroty'
e-prime is a form of english that does away with the verb 'to be', including the word 'is'
so for example, we would not claim 'that is a table'

Carl

Ok, but why say that?

Gav

A is A
we would instead contextualise it
'that has a flat surface and 4 support struts'
or
'we call that a table'
but its inherent nature 'is' not that of 'table'
because 'table' is just a word or symbol

Carl

But table is only a label to identify that object or state of matter or energy

Gav

right, and general semantics helps people to open the mind to the fact that 'the map is not the territory'

Carl

So what is NT stand on Plato and Aristotle's paradigms now, still the same? My movie script is NT  inspired and depicts both characters. Even though Earth's history is much bigger than both characters

Gav

well here's the thing Carl.  along time ago i wrote an article called 'mysticism to some is not mysticism to others'

and that's really what i've been describing about 'context'

Carl

LOL…really, what was that [article] about?

Gav

so neo-tech still pushes the aristotle vs plato paradigm because its a useful low level identificaition that helps people's perspective about making stuff up that doesn't exist (dishonesty, irrationality and mysticism)

Carl

Yeah, I understand about the context issue
Do you think that is wise?

Gav

however, FRW himself wrote that plato corrected much of hist work in later life and actually appeared to become more honest and integrated
I cant remember if it said more so than aristotle or not

i dont know if it is wise or not
but i still think its necessary for the lower levels

because until a person comes from that central point of honesty, they are too susceptible to mysticism

this was the great gift in my view of ayn rand and objectivism
the worlds philosophies needed a good clean out of all the mystical stuff, and oism gave the right counter point perspective to push forward into honesty

thus oism becomes irrelevant, and so eventually does neo-tech, which neo-tech itself says
but only when people are fully integrated beyond it, which may only be really possible in the CofU

hence we are all juggling different paradigms
and all that counts is contextual identification, honesty, and removing the parasites

Carl

Well, I had a shock from the reaction of someone I worked with during the development of my script. He was more or less disgusted by NT views…he advocated plato, i couldn't understand at the time, however, that was a catalyst for me to re-evaluate plato's views.

I mos def agree with you on Rand, she was brilliant…so far still valid from a 3D perspective
Well, I can tell you at this point, I do not believe anymore, I just stay aware, if that makes sense to you

I am aware of reference points in time and space

Gav

yes the chinese have the phrase 'mu' which means 'i dont know' or 'i have no opinion'
and that's again what my view is about contextualism

Carl

Does it make sense to you?

Gav

as hermes said 'all truths are but half truths'
no dogma
only perspectives based on crystal clear definitions

Carl

Hermes is one of the lead characters in my movie script, I knew nothing about him when I chose the name then
Yes, my weakness is still articulating my concepts
I put that down to mental blockage or having english as a second language. However, I conclude there is something else at play, that I still can't identify. Maybe a lack of good formal education.

Gav

Carl
im not sure good formal education exists
i certianly dont think its important

my sister went to cambridge university to study 'natural science'
it doesn't mean she can articulate various ideas any better than anyone else

Carl

Do you think possession of your being is a possibility?

Gav

what is possession of your being?
ofcourse taking academic courses or learning from others, teachers, professors, etc is helpful
FRW made a point of recommending a certain source of audio educational programs
i forget the company name

Carl

Yeah, but it makes a difference if you have a good english tutor than a mediocre, in the use of grammar or vocab, don't u think?

Gav

you would im sure benefit by taking formal education on philosophy or aristotle plato if you needed indepth historical understanding or knowledge of them

Carl

My problem is I forget everyday simple words

Gav

well having a tutor 30 years ago teach you vocab probably wouldnt help you with remembering simple words day to day

but if your process is good, you have access to good dictionaries and thesaurus etc, then you can overcome that when you are writing yes?

Carl

Do u think concepts determine your articulation of language?

Gav

well i think concepts can make articulation more difficult in some cases
but that's the writing process
to take our huge thoughts and find ways to capture them in words on a page

Carl

Anyway, why have u decided to go into marketing? You are very eloquent and have a very good grasp of psychology.

Gav

my perspective is this

Gav

business is the application mode of value creation
marketing is a core component of that

Carl

By that you mean creating values, right?

Gav

yes
and what's more, marketing is about psychology

Carl

If you have an excellent command of language and understand the nature of the ego, u gone clear.?
It's all in the ego

Gav

?

Carl

Are you familiar with Peter Joseph's Zeitgeist?

Gav

yes im familiar with it

Carl

Marketing and advertising is the manipulation of the ego, put simply.

Gav

so is art

Carl

What's ur opinon on their visionary plan of resource based economies? as opposed to scarcity based economy

Gav

in the CofU its a good idea, but in the anticiv, it will lead to socialist control

i believe we need people to understand private property rights, like the cleaning process of ayn rand and aristotlean philosophy, before we can progress to something like 'no money'

Carl

LOL….very true
Errrmmm…I had been battling with these concepts long before I saw Joseph's film, but would private property matter, if we have conquered the material world
I can understand staking a territory, or abode
Don't you think competition and private property are anticiv concepts

Gav

i dont know if it would matter, but i know that right now it absolutely does
i dont know if they are anticiv concepts, but we cant abandon them until we are already beyond the anticiv

Carl

Oh no, I'm not talking about now…we still in the anticiv
Some have accuse the venus project of being a socialist ploy
another covert plan of the NWO
because of the lack of ownership of material goods
and the ethics of AI machine driven technology

Gav

yes i think that quite plausible
or at best, it is not a socialist ploy, but certainly suits their agenda
and thus will be used for socialist controls
hence the necessity of low-level 'A is A' concepts like the traditional neo-tech approach to aristotle and plato, and rand's hard-line objectivism

Carl

Well, ideas and technologies are double edge swords, but my intuition tells me Jacque has good intentions
but Aristotle created the mess we are in today, in regards to dismissing the spiritual realm

Gav

aristotle identified the purpose of life as being happiness.  to me that is perfectly spiritual

Carl

Quantum physics reveals what ancient masters knew; matter does not exist! Aristotle's philosophy led to the creation of the concept of substance. The world's ills are caused by the belief that the substance of the universe is matter. This belief leads to a fear-greed dichotomy and a scarcity mentality.

Gav

all depends on definition and context

Carl

Infact the substance of the universe is consciousness! Therefore, it is behaviour that is important as we mold and form our reality from the living fabric of the consciousness of creation. — James J Traitz

Gav

thought is converting into thing, either by the hand or some other controlled technology

we're going beyond having definitions here

Carl

Hitler wanted him and his friends to be happy too
he was also very spiritual

Gav

exactly, we're going past contextually accurate definitions

Carl

Oh no, i am being very kind about Aristotle, he was a low down son of a bitch

Gav

pardon?

Carl

I have done my research, this is why I questioned Wallace's agenda in holding Aristotle in high esteem without exposing the negative agenda
Aristotle should exchange places with plato, it was he who was the father of the criminal mind, extremely clever guy

Gav

well i look forward to seeing the full explanation in your video
from what i've read of aristotles nicomachean ethics, im surprised that you are putting forward this view

Carl

It's a feature movie…trilogy
Aristotle created this slavery system we are stuck in….using the superiority myth..based on ego
It is so difficult to dig this knowledge up, but there is enough out there to form one's own conclusion…the vatican must have volumes on his hidden agenda

Gav

well all it takes is referencing his books to expose his philosophy
what makes it difficult to 'dig this knowledge up'?

Carl

Oh no, even wiki will tell you most of works were lost or destroyed

Gav

ok so on what basis do you make your conclusions?

Carl

Is Aristotle not known as the father of western civilization?

Gav

i dont know
but what im asking is

Carl

LOL….now come on Gav

Gav

where in aristotles writings does it describe these terrible things you are suggesting of him?

Carl

Gav there is a reason why I asked you that question, if you do not know such a simple historic answer, which Wallace even mention to my recollection, I will not elaborate.
?

Gav

well the burden of proof rests on the one making the assertion, and doing a google search for ""father of western civilization" aristotle" reveals only 11 instances so certainly does not seem a popular idea at all
so i assume you have something else?

Carl

Well, Wallace and Rand seem to agree with that. My point is that, conventional history is distorted and fabricated. It's all staged…it's all an illusion.
Why do they rewrite the history books?

Gav

i dont see how that leads us to the conclusion that aristotle is a low down son of a bitch

Carl

The parasitical elites project aristotle as the father of western civilization.

Gav

plato is far more popular than aristotle

Carl

Plato only started gaining more popularity I believe after Sir Francis bacon's rewriting of Aristotle's scientific works

Gav

i take if you've read lots of aristotle and plato?

Carl

Not lots, just relevant to my research

Gav

plato's influence controlled early greek / roman societal development

Carl

According to Wallace right?

Gav

according to lots of sources
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=platos+influence&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Carl

Are you aware that Aristotle's works influenced the creation of the church more than plato's did? Wallace claimed the contrary

Gav

well Carl, its late now so gonna go eat and read.  im not convinced aristotle is a low down son of a bitch, and not sure where you have derrived that view from
but i look forward to the obviously very interesting research documetnary / film

Carl

I understand, it's not a docu, it a feature….

Gav

nice to talk to you again, i can see that you're pushing hard into new ideas and proejcts
my view is that the church would take the logical good from aristotle and suppress it or use it for its own end but not that aristotle intended his logic to be used for bad as he wrote against such things

Carl

Pleasure, will be in touch,

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 16:02, Carl wrote:

Hey Gav,

Here are a couple links I came across today, while searching for a comment made by Michael Tsarion regarding Neo-tech's agenda.

With Neo-tech's use of symbolism in their logo such as the pyramid and the cross of lorraine, hidden in plain sight, it should be food for thought. Wallace admits to coming from a family with a long line of legal professionals including judges, high court judges, etc, worked for Dupont, an illuminati company, claims the Illuminati are the good guys, supported Bush during the attack on Iraq and Afghanistan. Al-quaeda is the name of a database containing ex mujahadeen fighters including Bin Ladin, created by the Nazi created CIA.

When I attended the Neo-tech Ted Nicholas seminar in 98, I first learned of the making of a Neo-tech film called the Matrix at the seminar, and even Wallace claimed it was Neo-tech inspired. Later, it sufficed that the Matrix concept had been stolen by the Wachoski brothers from Sophia Stewart works, an African-American writer and filmmaker. She wrote The Third Eye, a spiritual and futuristic epic, inspired by the second coming of Carlt story, which is where both the Terminator and Matrix where plagiarised from.

When I first heard that, due to my blindness and loyalty to NT, I dimissed her as being a parasite, for I thought I knew the truth, which was that it was a Neo-tech inspired story. How wrong I was. Was Wallace also duped, or did he know the real deal on the fraud?

In writing the script for my movie, I hired a professional script writer to assist me in refining my thoughts in detail, and editing the drafts. I had a rude awakening. He got so excited about the story concept, he tried to hold me hostage in return for giving him total writing credits, which I had agreed to share with him in the first place.

An english man who had the audacity to tell me I should settle only for the credit of original story concept. Now, that was a wake up call to white supremacy, because I could not figure out what else the reason could be. It wasn't just about the passionate desire for recognition or fame. You see, white supremacist Hollywood cannot afford for blacks like us who can see and cut through all the fascist bullshit, to expose their illusions of supremacy.

Aristotle was not only an advocate of slavery, he designed a blueprint that would covertly enslave Earth's entire civilization by programming and manipulating the Ego, which is a product of left brain thinking. This is hidden in plain sight within his Nichomachean ethics. It was Aristotle who conditioned and corrupted Alexander into sacking the melanated people of Persia, Israel to Khemet (Egypt), and loot and burn down the great library of Alexander. It is said Alexander gave the emerald tablets of Thoth to Aristotle. Aristotle made the library of Alexanria his personal library for a certain period.

Obviously, most of the dark history of Aristotle will not be found in conventional circles. He was also the father of white supremacy, sowing the seeds for the church and eugenists who came later, in my opinion.

Objectivism is the refined form of the matrix, an invisible prison. Unplugging from the matrix, is entering the spiritual realm, the right brain or subconscious, the real world where the true self resides. It is not just about breaking down the illusions created by the elites, it is exiting out of the holographich objective reality into the real subjective reality. The makers of the Matrix movie understood this.

Wallace was at best a manipulated misinformation agent, or disinformation agent at worst. This is all my opinion anyway, based on my research, thoughts and intuition. And don't for one moment think I haven't grasped the essence of Wallace's Neo-Tech, for you will be selling your self short, and giving in to your ego, be it the superiority myth or whatever egotistical shortcoming it might be. I hope you break through the NT and Aristotlelian illusion eventually.

I paraphrase; As a rule of thumb, always believe or think the opposite of the elites. — Aelous Kephas.

http://atonation.blogspot.com/2007/11/nouveu-tech-and-death-of-mystics.html

http://atonation.blogspot.com/2007/11/nouveu-tech-death-of-mystics-and.html

Carl.

===

Following this I wrote the following reply but decided not to send it just yet:

–start of response–

My perspective is that you have a highly superficial understanding of both Aristotelean ethics and philosophy as well as Neo-Tech, evidenced by:

a) your lack of understanding Neo-Tech including questioning its approach to right brain knowledge, which as I have suggested in our conversation was already covered in NT way back when you were reading it…

b) your own admission that you only skimmed Zonpower, and clearly have not kept up to date with its advances, and haven’t read much of Aristotle’s actual wrirtings either.

c) unfortunately I also find that whilst you espouse having no or few beliefs or left brain opinions, you seem to be stuck in many of them.

I will print this on my blog for I am very open to debating publicly on all of our various integrations because I don’t believe any of us fully grasp the super-puzzle that we require to either understanding, or replace, this anticivilisation.

–end of response–

Rather than email that response, I gave Carl some original neo-tech articles about honest and integrated right brain spirituality to see what his response would be.

I won’t paste Carl’s reply to that, but he emphasises that ‘white supremacy has stolen Africa’s heritage of philosophical contribution to the world’. (Carl is black. Carl is also a pseudonym that I am using).

So my final comment to Carl is this:

d) You also apparently do not understand neo-tech’s position on individual rights and human equality. Altogether a very different view from that which I have. That’s putting it gently.

and e) my grandmother also has a similar 'victim and persecution' mentality from her judaic background. Bottom line: Each of us must abandon our biases so that we may see the world without tinted glasses.

Originally posted 2009-08-14 21:46:22. Republished by Old Post Promoter

Related Posts Possible Related From Other Sites

Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Spread the Word!

Buzz Up Digg Mixx
Print

Related Posts

Leave a Comment

Fields marked by an asterisk (*) are required.

Subscribe without commenting

The Success Matrix Entrance
Register Login